RealAg Radio: Treating Canadian agriculture and food as a matter of national security, Mar 18, 2026

The Three Leg Radio podcast is brought to you by Pounce 384 EC insecticide from FMC. Get fast effective control of striped and crucifer flea beetles and cutworms in canola with light stable performance that lasts longer. Talk to your local retailer Today it's time for Real Egg Radio on rural radio channel 147 on SiriusX. RealAg Radio and RealLagCulture.com is your home for insight and analysis of the issues that are impacting your farm business. Let's get real and get connected with RealAg Radio. Welcome to Reel Ag Radio here on Real Radio 147. SiriusXM. Shaun Haney, your host here on this wonderful Wednesday edition of the show. It is already March 18th. Yes. So, hey, thanks everybody for making Reel Ag Radio and Rural Radio 147 a big part of your workday. Also, of course, huge shout out to listening out there on the RealAg Radio podcast as well. Hope you're having yourself a great week. I had a great time yesterday in Lucknow, Ontario. It was fabulous time with the Co op there and I got so many messages. What are you doing there? I also got messages from some of the locals. Hey, you didn't stop. I'm sorry, I'm sorry. It was a very quick trip. Had a great time with the audience. Fabulous audience and lots of big questions on some of the things that are happening in the world of agriculture, which I. That's one of my favourite things is that is the interactions, the great questions that people have. I learned so much from the perspectives of the audience at different speeches that I'm giving this afternoon. I'll be in High River, Alberta giving a presentation talking about the storey of real agriculture, how it came to be, how it kind of fit into a family farm succession. Storey farm succession. That didn't go very well, just to be honest with you. And here we are today, farm broadcaster and honestly, one of the best jobs in agriculture. If you have any feedback on today's show, because we're going to dive deep with really one of the smart people in our industry, you can send me an email shaneeyealagriculture.com you can also call or text the RealAg feedback line. 855776. I'm going to tell you about the meat of the show here in a second, but I do want to mention that the midpoint of the show, we are going to have a product spotlight today with Adam of Canada. Rob Berry is going to be with us to talk about a product they were very excited about. But the bulk of the show is, I think, pretty exciting and a really important conversation. Agriculture is often framed as an economic driver, but Alison Sundstrom says that Canada should treat it as something far more strategic, national security. So we're going to do is we're going to play an episode, the most recent episode of the Ag Policy Connection podcast. It's Hosted by Tyler McCann and Elise Bigley of the Canadian Agri Food Policy Institute. Alison Sundstrom is somebody that I always love to listen to. She is the CEO of conservex, sorry, managing partner at NYA Ventures and a longtime ag tech entrepreneur. She's done a lot in the ag tech space. If there's a meeting on innovation and ag tech and trying to create those next, you know, really taking those, those big ideas to commercialization, there's a good chance that Alison Sunderstrom is in that room. So we're going to do is we're going to play a good part of the discussion that Tyler and Elise had with, with Alison. So let's get started. This is from the Ag Policy Connection podcast. You can find it real agriculture.com or on the Real Agriculture YouTube channel or wherever you get your podcasts. And they're talking to Alison Sundstrom. Let's begin. I'm one of your hosts, Tyler McCann, the managing director of the Canadian Agri Food Policy Institute. I've been working in ag policy and politics for 20 years and I'm a policy wonk and I'm not. But I'm your other host, Elise Bigley, the Director of Strategic projects at CAPI Canada's agriculture and food think tank. In this podcast, we'll be talking to leaders across agriculture and food about their big ideas to create generational change in ag policy. That's right, Elise. We think the time has come for ag policy to catch up with the changes happening on farms and food processors and across the sector. We are excited to work with Real Agriculture to bring some of these big ideas for change to you. Make sure to visit capi's website to subscribe to our mailing list, follow us on our socials and on YouTube and to keep up to date. And with that, let's get started. So today we're joined by Alison Sundstrom. Alison is a Canadian entrepreneur and venture investor working at the intersection of agriculture, food systems and emerging technology. She is the CEO of Conserve X, the Managing partner at NYA Ventures, and a fellow and founding partner at Creative Destruction Lab. Allison previously co founded and led Grow Safe Systems into a globally recognised ag technology company and now Mentors and invests in food and ag tech ventures focused on commercialization, resilience and value chain innovation. So we're really excited to hear from Allison today and welcome to the Ag Policy Connection. Thank you, Elise. So let's just jump right in. Alison, what's your big idea for us? Okay, my big idea is actually not that big of an idea. It's actually an idea that's been percolating forever. Tyler and I spent some time in November talking about it and pretty simply, food is national security and innovation is Canada's resilience strategy. I think if we take that food is national security. I think if we take that seriously, it forces a generational reset in how Canada thinks about agriculture and innovation. Food security doesn't stop at the farm gate. It runs through processing capacity, supply chains, labour mobility, energy inputs, trade corridors, and the data and digital infrastructure that underpin modern production. In a world where trade is increasingly weaponized and resilience is being tested, agriculture isn't just an economic sector, it's strategic infrastructure. And the real question isn't whether we can grow enough food or how much more we can grow. It's whether our policies make the entire system resilient, investable and competitive. The future of agriculture won't be just won in the field, it will be won or lost in the policy choices we make about innovation, regulation, capital and trade. Thanks, Alison. So, before we dive more into the big idea, because I already have some questions brewing, we want to hear about the journey that led you to this big idea. So can you tell us about your career and experience in food and ag tech? Sure. I had a Originally I started out life as an accountant and quickly turned into a techie. And basically my first real touch with entrepreneurship is I developed an electronic data interchange project with a Canadian railroad looking to making transportation more affordable across Canada, largely using economic commerce or ways of exchanging data without manual intervention. I was able to divest myself of that business in two years and I thought, wow, it's really easy to be an entrepreneur. And then I started investing in certain areas and then met a group of engineers in Alberta that were doing things with data I'd never seen before. I thought that it would be another two year investment and after 29 years of research and development, I divested that company or my partner and I divested that company in 2019 to a UK private wealth firm. Now we have a bit of a success storey because when we first started the divestiture we both owned about 90% of our business. And that actually isn't a success storey per se, it definitely leads to a better exit. But I had a very difficult time finding capital and also knowing how to scale globally. We scaled our company around the world. We sold our technology to most major ag universities in the world first, and then to corporations and farmers and ranches second. That was quite a learning journey and I think perhaps wouldn't have taken as long if I had better mentorship, perhaps. And then secondly, if access to capital as we were scaling was readily available and I think that we would have grown our company more successfully. From Canada, we were success, but there's another level of success I think we could have reached. You're listening to the most recent episode of the Ag Policy Connection Podcast, the discussion with Alison Sundstrom. You know the Canadian Agri Food Policy Institute is an independent think tank bringing together diverse voices to advance future focused policy solutions. By creating trusted space for dialogue, CAPI helps ensure growth for and prosperity for Canadian agri food. Visit capi-icpa CA we'll back with more of Freelike Radio right after this. Questions about the markets Sonoa by grainfox is your AI grain market analyst ready 24? 7 to help you make smarter grain marketing decisions? Ask about market trends, pricing signals, basis or what today's moves mean for you and get clear, instant answers. Get a free trial and special savings at Grainfox Ca realag Grainfox CA realag Ask Sanoa get an answer. Take action. It's that easy. Get started now. Since 2009, the Canola School on RealAgriculture.com has been providing relevant and timely agronomic advice to anyone involved in canola production. With over 15 years of video content on YouTube, the Canola School has been producers Go to source for Canola agronomy, research, marketing and more. The Canola School is brought to you by BASF and Invigor Hybrid Canola cheque us out on YouTube [email protected]. If you're serious about agriculture, Real Ag's got you covered. For over 10 years, we've listened to and shared what producers have to say about everything from policy to agronomy. From coast to coast. Keep up with the latest in Canadian [email protected] through daily newsletters and Cheque out, our YouTube channel. Thanks for joining us in the RealAg community as we continue to cover and serve North American agriculture. What we're discussing today and thinking about is is agriculture a national security issue, not just an economic driver? It's the most recent episode from the Ag Policy Connection podcast and you can find the full episode by going to Real Agriculture.com it's also on the Real Agriculture YouTube channel or as well, wherever you get your podcasts. You know, for generations, Bregod has led the world in air seeding technology built on innovation and agronomy. First design Burgo delivers precision placement, smart data integration and the productivity farmers demand. Burgo advancing farming one acre at a time. Visit B O U R G a u l t.com that's burgo.com let's continue the conversation on the Ag Policy Connection podcast with Alison Sundstrom. And the Ag Policy Connection podcast is hosted by Tyler McCann and Elise Bigley of CAPI. I want to touch on something you mentioned earlier. You said you realised it's easy to be an entrepreneur. Can you expand on that? Do you think it's easy to be an entrepreneur in Canada? In the ag and tech space, it's really easy to be an entrepreneur. To be a successful scaling entrepreneur is much more difficult. And I think that's what we've kind of created in Canada. We've got all these early stage incentives and a lot of people are out there thinking, hey, great, I could get a grant. We don't want grantpreneurs. We want entrepreneurs that are building scaling businesses that succeed. But Alison, does that get kind of an inconvenient truth when it comes to entrepreneurship? You know, I think that there's one of these challenges, right, where a perception issue, a political issue, governments like to hand out grants to individuals. We think we've got everybody that's got an idea, kind of needs to be able to get off, kind of get off the ground and go. But that doesn't seem to be how you think about entrepreneurship. What's the reality of that? Let's maybe break it down to innovation and let's say what innovation is, because we have innovated toothpaste, we have innovated this. But reality is innovation equals invention times commercialization, times adoption. If we don't have all of those factors, then we really don't have innovation. And, and I think sometimes we forget about that. And so to be a successful entrepreneur means that you have to build and grow your company. And how much of the journey that you went on, how many of the lessons that you learned on the journey that you went on, Alison, over the kind of those, all of those years you were involved in the business are easily transferable. I could like, how many of these things are unique to every business as they're trying to scale that's trying to innovate, that's trying to go through those three steps. And how much of these things are things that the average Canadian entrepreneur could and should learn? Well, I think the more that you're open to coachability and that is the learning within entrepreneurship. There's a lot of things that are replicable, but to be highly creative and innovative takes a lot of different things. It takes grit, perseverance. It takes knowing how to access capital. And more than anything, rather than focusing on government support, it takes knowing how to acquire customers. And I think in our conversation today on policy, that's a big part of trade. And so within an entrepreneurial sense, you need to be able to access customers. You need to be solving a problem that they seriously have. We sometimes have maybe the aspirin, not the problem. And so we want to make sure that the problem we're solving is going to be adopted by someone. Alison, before we dive into your big. Your big idea. Sorry, I wanted to ask you about mentorship. So you are a mentor in this space, and you had mentioned that you could have had more success if you had better mentorship. What does that look like on the ground? What's that within the Canadian. Well, we need entrepreneurs that have skilled, that are skilled, that have scaled, and those that have had success. It is incredibly difficult to build from the ground or from the idea and then get through to commercialization. It takes a lot of knowledge. It takes. It takes creativity in business models and in invention and in many things, and building a strong mentorship group. That's why I find Creative Destruction Lab so important. The mentors at Creative Destruction Lab have been. Have been to the show. They know what it takes. And I think across Canada, we need to have that kind of mentorship support. All of that said, entrepreneurs are a different breed. They're very independent and they need to be incredibly focused. And we can provide them with certain skills, certain skill sets. We can provide them with certain support. But that comes into an area of policy, which I think really focuses us back on the conversation today is what do we need to respond to this coercion that we're currently facing? How do we build a strong agricultural infrastructure and how do we build innovation capacity? Because innovation is really what drives our economic engine. So before we get into that, Alison, I'm curious, how would you answer the question today about the state of the agri food system, the agri food innovation system, and would your answer have been different? Kind of two years ago, before we faced the coercion that we're we're facing today? No, I think my answer would have been the same. We're out and we have some exceptional, we have some exceptional pods and groups and people within the industry so please don't take my words but we almost stopped investing in the 50s and we hit this great place in the 70s and then we've been declining ever since. So our investment is where we're really lacking. We haven't invested in innovation, we've maintained more than anything and we've used the budget, continuous declining budget rather than what is the return on investment of our expenditures. And so I think we are so far behind the eight ball in terms of being very innovative in where we sit. And I think we got very comfortable having a huge partner across the border that we could rely on. And in terms of innovation and exporting of our entrepreneurs if you have a dollar that's worth 75 cents at home and you can export your products in a good favourable currency environment, maybe you don't work so hard. And so I think we haven't invested. And Alison, we saw firsthand the impact of not having invested last week or two weeks ago when we record this when Agriculture Canada announced reductions in its R and D footprint and the closure of research sites. Two weeks. Still don't have a good sense as to what the full impact of those changes are. We're still waiting for more details from government but I think it's worth getting your perspective on how do you link that long term decline in investment to these changes in R and D? And if we start to think about reinvestment, where do you think that that reinvestment should go? So closing a Canada innovation sites without a replacement plan, that's a strategic error. But trying to preserve every legacy site exactly as it would have been or making an even bigger one is another mistake. The real failure isn't consolidation, it's consolidation without a modern innovation and deployment strategy. I think we're going to see some really excellent researchers going by the wayside because of this, maybe not finding other but we also have to look at three things. I think the first perhaps is gotta acknowledge the fiscal reality of where we sit. We have to. I don't know why we always want to defend the status quo in Canada when things aren't working. For God's sakes let's turn the page and I really want to know, okay, so we're closing these centres where what replaces the capacity that we've lost and that's the most important thing. We're dismantling physical capability without enabling it elsewhere. That bothers me. And we also have certain approaches we keep throwing, let's call it five million dollar dumps into programmes or into things that aren't working. We have to make sure that we have metrics and benchmark to look at the success of our programmes. And so we're losing something very special. We're losing living labs because that's what most of these centres were. We're losing long term data sets and I've been privileged in accessing some of those data sets. It's a trusted convening platform and so how are we going to replace that? And it's a regulatory adjacent proof environment and I'll give you one example. And I don't know what's happening with this site, but the fact that there was actually an operational harvest capacity at Lacombe Research Centre, if that one's going away, I'll be very, very sad because it enabled innovation that probably wouldn't have been able to be accessed anywhere else. So I really want to make sure that we don't shrink our testing, validation and scale innovation at the exact moment when our resilience needs it. And you know, I really think we've under invested in these, in these research stations and I'm really sad that we've just made this decision to close without really considering what we're losing and already struggling in the middle zone. And I think that we have. If we can scale applied innovation, I think that's where we really need assistance. So we might be going in the wrong direction, we might be closing the right sites. But do we really know? And I would suggest we don't. You're listening to the Ag Policy Connection podcast hosted by Tyler McCann and Elyse Bigley of CAPI and their guest is Alison Sundstrom. We're going to continue the conversation, we come back, but first let's talk about oxbo, the latest innovation from nufarm, a versatile broadleaf in crop herbicide powered by Duplasan technology. Oxbow is your workhorse on resistant Kochia and other tough weeds. Yes. We'll be back with more of RealAg Radio right after this. The future of phosphorus fertilisers is RhizoZorb. Craig Dick, VP of Sales and Marketing for Phospholutions, explains. RhizoZorb 8390 is a next generation dry phosphate fertiliser that replaces MAP or GAP. RhizoZorb technology is incorporated into traditional phosphate manufacturing, resulting in a finished granule that enhances phosphorus uptake, reduces phosphorus use rates and maintains crop yields, preserve yield, optimise phosphorus and reduce costs with rhizome orb. Peter Johnson at wheatpeatrealagriculture.com I'm the host of the Word and I love doing the Word. I love the questions, I love the challenges. I love having to apply agronomics to all over the globe and areas outside of my normal jurisdiction. Also, I love the feedback the most. Where growers challenge me, tell me about their plot results, help me to learn the Word. Absolutely the best part of my day. As you look ahead to the next growing season, there's a lot to consider when it comes to your crop. You need every possible advantage available to you. The Pulse School on RealAgriculture.com has everything you need to make the best choice for you and your Farm On Demand videos with leading industry experts available anywhere, anytime. Go into the season confident and ready with the Pulse School on RealAgriculture.com. And welcome back to RealAg Radio. Here for this product spotlight today we're talking to Adama. We've got Rob Berry, who's the development manager in the area of product development with Adama and he joins us right now. How are we doing today, Rob? Not too bad, thanks, Shaun. How are you doing? I'm doing great, doing good. Okay, so it's March, which is incredibly hard to believe. We're getting very close to maybe, you know, actually putting some seed in the ground. It's right around the corner here. And with spring just around the corner, wheat growers are making some final decisions about their wild oat herbicide programme. And let's start with some of the basics here. What exactly is this new product, Cazado, and how does it work on wild oats? Sure. Thanks, Shaun, and appreciate again having me back on the programme. Thanks for your question. Cassada was Adama's. Cassada was Adama Canada's dual action herbicide that combines pinoxidin, which is a Group 1 herbicide, and thioncarbazone, a Group 2 herbicide at full rates to kill wild oats in spring wheat, durum wheat and winter wheat across western Canada. The Group 1 component, phenoxidin, is an ACCASE inhibitor that stops wild oats from producing essential fatty acids needed for cell membrane formation, leading to growth cessation. The group 2 component, thiocarbazone, is an ALS inhibitor that stops wild oats from producing essential amino acids, leading to growth cessation and ultimately death. This combination works because it controls wild oats regardless of whether they're Resistant to group one or group two chemistries. It also provides excellent control of many broadleaf weeds while targeting wild oats after a full season of cazado in Canadian wheat fields on the market. What are some of the field tested best practises that have emerged when it comes to wild oat control? Right. Thanks Shaun. Overall we had very good results with casado in general, but like with all products, there are some best practises. Better use management practises with Casado. In field trials that we found last year, casado achieved a 93% success rate against resistant wild populations versus leading competitive programmes. 93% win or equal success rate. Timing is critical. Cassado works best when applied early when wild oats are in the two to four leaf stage. Growers who applied Casado at the recommended rate saw consistently better wild oat control than those who tried to cut rates. Don't shortchange the application. Water volume matters. Use 5 to 10 gallons per acre with 10 gallons per acre recommended for best efficacy. Field conditions at application impacted results. Warm actively growing conditions gave better and faster more complete well adult control. About 3 degrees Celsius if at all possible is our minimum recommendation. Growers who scudded fields post application and kept field records are now better able to make decisions about where to use Casado this season. For more effective and consistent control, we recommend adding ammonium sulphate, especially when using hard water and spring wheat under heavy wall though pressure or stress conditions. You can also consider adding an MSO adjuvant as well to enhance the spreading and uptake of casado. Be proactive. It's best to use Casado as part of your overall weed control strategy. It's best used on your wheat acres before serious resistant walled oat infestations occur, not as a rescue treatment for your dirtiest fields. That makes sense when we're casey taking that and thinking about the 26 season. Any other final bits of advice to get the most out of cazado this spring if growers are using it once again? Don't compromise on timing. We have a tendency to want to wait for multiple flushes and spray a little later to try to get everything. But if there's one single recommendation, I would say spray early with cassada. Early application when wild oats are small is the biggest single success factor with casado. The dual modes of action work best when weeds are actively growing and in the most vulnerable stage that two to four leaf stage timing. Growers who waited too long last season or tried to spray larger wild oats didn't get the same level of control as growers who sprayed earlier. Casado offers tank mix flexibility with commonly used wheat herbicides. Always follow the proper mixing order. It's always water first. In most cases Cassada goes in first. With some dry Brovie products you'd put the dry in first, but in most the Cassada goes in first then the tank mix partner while maintaining sufficient agitation during mixing and application. If one has a specific question regarding tank mix order, it's best to contact your local Adama representative to clarify the best order for a specific mix. Yeah, great advice. If somebody wants more information on cazado, where do they go? Rob sure. Of course they can always contact their local retailer. And of course they can also go to our [email protected] Great stuff. Hey Rob, have yourself a great spring and I'm sure many of our listeners are thinking about Cazada when it comes to wild oak control here in the 26 season. Thanks so much for giving us a briefing on it. Thanks again Shaun. I appreciate it. You too. Really do appreciate this has been a product spotlight with Adama. Remember Cazado when you're thinking about that wild oat control. We'll be back with more of Reel Ag Radio right after this. Until you've used Via TUDE fungicide, you'll never know what your canola crop is capable of. Engineered excellence in Every Jug Via Tude combines two powerful actives, Group 11 and 3 for best in class Sclerotinia protection and superior resistance management by penetrating the plant and protecting against infection. Treat your canola crop to a healthy and productive season with VIA2. Ask your local retailer for more information. Before you get back in the field this year. Spend some time with the corn school on realagriculture.com get all the information you need on hybrid selection, planting depth, crop inputs and more from a wide range of industry experts. A massive library of video content is available on demand when you need it most. Spend your time outside of the field, inside the classroom with the corn school on realagriculture.com. Today we're talking about agriculture as a national security issue. It's from the most recent episode of the Ag Policy Connection podcast, hosted by Tyler McCann and Elise Bigley of CAPI. Their guest is Alison Sundstrom. You know, I really want your feedback on this topic and we're about halfway through today's show and I want to hear what you have to say about this. Send me an email shaneeyeal agriculture.com or of course you can always call or text the RealAg feedback line 855-776-6147. You can hear the full episode on the Real Agriculture YouTube channel or wherever you get your podcast. You know. With deep roots in agriculture, M&P's Ag risk management team helps producers protect their bottom line through smart, proactive risk planning. From agristability and agri invest to tailored private insurance strategies, MMP's Ag Risk Advisors simplify like they simplify complex programmes and build customised plans that fit your farm. Strengthen your operation with confidence. Connect with MMP today by going to MMP ca. Okay, let's continue the conversation with Alison Sundstrom. And I think also one of the things on the and I think it speaks to kind of the broader innovation dynamic that's that's been playing out is that this is something that at times it seems like we only appreciate it when we lose it. Right? I think often public R and D is kind of the unsung hero they do. Those public researchers do so much good work that producers may not know or understand. And it may take 10 or 20 years before the work that they're doing today gets gets onto the farms or into the processing facilities. But at the same time, they're not all doing good work. I think you acknowledged it right? There's a need to change or involve. How do you think about the role or the understanding the political support that the broader community has for public R and D in the face of changes like this? Is there a way to get farmers and others in agriculture to better understand, appreciate, engage on this issue? I think you hit it on the head. The first thing is we don't know what happens in those centres. And so shame on us for not indicating what actually occurred. And I think what we're not looking at, and we tend, and with great respect to our farmers, we tend to put them in a position that they're approving innovation budgets. And if I looked at maybe AI and I'll get off farmers, if I looked at every CEO in Canada and how AI enabled they are, I'd suggest they aren't. Less than 12% of Canada is adopting AI. We did the original research here and what we're doing is not adopting and not deploying. And so maintaining legacy facilities are expensive and we should have invested. But losing applied capacity raises downstream costs. So we may essentially save on operating costs, but we're increasing systemic risk. And I really would have liked to have seen that the government came out and said we're not exiting applied ag innovation. We are modernising how it's delivered because I don't hear anything that comes next. And I will say that I see something that's really bothersome to me after the economic strategy tables, which I think were a good Forward thought in 2017, 2018. I think what we're doing is we're just marginalising agriculture as an important part of the country. And I find that absolutely a scary thought. And so I think they really need. The government really needs to say what comes next, not just what's ending what's next. That segues us nicely to bring us back to your big idea. So you've highlighted food as national security needs to be seen as that. And innovation is Canada's resilience strategy. So why do you think it's needed now? Okay, it's needed more than ever. And I absolutely loved Prime Minister Carney's speech at Davos. I loved it. Made me so proud to be Canadian. But let's put it this way, elbows up sounds really good, feels good. But it's not a strategy, it's a posture. And where we sit today, modern coercion rarely starts with both. It starts with trade pressure, supply disruptions, information warfare. And that physical threat or that kinetic threat sits in the background and makes all of this pressure stick. The highest return. Defence investments for Canada sit outside the military line item. It sits in resilience, industrial capacity, cyber security, energy, and particularly to me, in the food system. And I don't think we're paying enough attention to that right now. And I think that we should be looking at food systems, trade corridors, digital infrastructure and innovation capacity as national security assets. It's not rhetoric, it's true strategy. And so I really think that at this time, we need to be strengthening those aspects that I just spoke to. And I think in food, resilience isn't built only with spending. It's built how we tax, how we invest and how we reward reinvestment. And that's where I really want to structure and focus our policy. So, Alison, thank you for mentioning the Davos speech and I want to read a quote by Carney and see what you just get your thoughts on that. He said, a country can't feed itself, fuel itself or defend itself, has few options. When the rules no longer protect you, you must protect yourself. Can you give us a sense from your view what he means by that? It's powerful. And when I was opening Myersco College, I was invited to go take a look at our systems there. And there was a gentleman, Lord Pound. I don't know who he is. Seriously but he said something that really struck me and I did some research on it and he said we are literally nine meals away from anarchy. It's a statement that's been attributed to everyone. But it really struck me because at the time, and this is five, six years ago, at the time, I wasn't thinking about Canada being food insecure, but the UK and the Netherlands have both been food insecure to the point that we never have been. We've been insecure during the Depression and other times, but really that statement said something to me. And when I saw during the pandemic people scraping along for toilet paper, I started wondering what would happen if our supply chain was cut off immediately. What if our supply chain was affected? And that nine meals away from Annequare means a just in time supply chain that doesn't have storage and logistics behind it, means if people don't have food, it can be anarchy. And actually the quote is attributed in one place to Lenin because of what happened in the Soviet Union or in Russia that literally stopped food. So it's serious. That was a little bit of a call for over the top, but it's a serious consideration. But Alison, I don't think many Canadians would think that it's that serious of a risk that we're not going to be able to feed ourselves. I don't think that. You know, I think it's easy for a lot of farmers and others to say we should see agriculture as a national security issue, but often they say that when really they want governments to keep doing what governments have been doing all along. How real of an issue do you think that this is? And what do you think we actually need to do different on the ground if we want to live up to your framing of how we should think about agriculture and food. So it's very real. We have to think of farming as strategic productive capacity, not just stewardship. So what we think about in agriculture, because we're very comfortable, we think that we're stewards of the land and we are for the future. But if we don't steward that land well, we won't have future production. And it's really about profitability, resilience and decision. Advantage of the farm gate doesn't mean that we can just so we can produce enough food, great. But are our farmers profitable? Are they resilient? If there's downturns, if they lose market, if they lose certain things, will they still exist? And that really comes to where we are vulnerable and we actually face it on the production side. Our vulnerability is Production. If we look at Canola, for example, which is a great success storey, we have a limited number of crushers, we have limited processing storage. The inputs were very vulnerable to input, pricing and data, energy and logistics. So we have vulnerabilities. And this is where resilience is won or lost, in my view. Allison, Resilience is a funny word because I think for a long time under the last government, under the Trudeau government, I think it was often seen about resilience in the face of climate change and adaptation. I think it became kind of associated with the environmental movement, especially in the agriculture context. But on one hand, where drought on the prairies hits less than it used to. Right. Production today is able to withstand, is more resilient to some of those risks that production risks than it was 20, 25 years ago. New genetics, agronomic practises has changed the resilience of farms. And then on the flip side, I think today we're in a world where resilience means something very different. And, and it's interesting, you outlined a bunch of risks where rather than like on the weather risk and our resilience getting better over 25 years, arguably our resilience to market risk to cyber, to trade has gotten worse. I guess I'm curious again, what does this actually, how do we actually do something different to live up to this framing? Okay, well, let's say you don't have food security if you can't move, process or finance what you grow. So that's one level, that's an economic resilience, climate resilience. You're very correct. But you know, Tyler, we don't all live in Indian Head. Now, I say it this way because I sat on a. I watched a. At the Canola Association, I watched four farmers stand up and talk about canola growing in their area, the yields that they get in their areas, and the challenges they were having for whatever reason. The woman from Indian Head said, you know, I don't have any of those problems. And that's probably a really good point because it's not equal across Canada. Right, Right. So production is. It can be affected by many things. Get instant answers to your grain marketing questions. 24, 7 Sonoa is your AI grain market analyst available anytime to help you understand prices, basis and market trends so you can act with confidence, start a free trial and unlock RealAg listener savings by going to Grainfox CA realag. We're gonna take a quick break and when we come back, we're gonna hear more of Tyler McCann and Elise Bigley's conversation with Alison Sundstrom from the most recent episode of the Aggressive Policy Connection Podcast back right after this. I'm Lindsay Smith from Real Agriculture.com join me Monday nights for the Agronomists, a one hour live and interactive show broadcast across YouTube, Facebook and X. Monday nights at 8pm Eastern I host expert agronomists from all over the country to give you answers to some of the toughest agronomic questions. Join us live or catch the replay Tuesday morning. That's the Agronomist with me, Lindsay Smith, Monday nights live at 8pm Eastern. Hi, I'm Berner Tobin, host of the Soybean School on RealAgriculture.com throughout the year on the Soybean School, we'll bring you timely agronomic video content from planting to harvest, from the latest agronomic research to the latest in providing technology. Cheque out our massive video library on YouTube realagriculture.com or download the audio podcast versions wherever you get your podcasts. The Soybean School is brought to you by Mazec Seeds and Lalamom Plant Care. Want to remind you if you want to hear the full discussion with Alison Sundstrom from the Animation Ag Policy Connection podcast. If you've enjoyed this, you want to hear more, the best thing you could do is go to the Real Agriculture YouTube channel or the Real Agriculture podcast wherever you get your podcasts as well as@real agriculture.com okay, we're going to finish up the conversation here, but first I want to tell you about FP Genetics. FP Genetics brings new Seed Genetics to Canadian farms, empowering growers to thrive in ever changing conditions. Visit FPGenetics CA and join thousands of Canadian growers who trust FPGenetics to deliver innovative, reliable seed genetics season after season. Experience the Next Wave with FPGenetics. Go to FPGenetics CA. Here is Tyler McCann Elise Bigley with her guest Alison Sundstrom. Let's hear the rest of the conversation and how much of the problem that we have is that things aren't equal across the country and the rest that you talk about are different. And so a solution for agriculture is tough. Yeah, there isn't an a solution, there is solutions that can get you 60, 70, 80, 90% of the way and then you have to adapt. And so resilience from my respect is really where defence comes in. And trade is a true defence move. And agriculture needs trade is not just market access, it's strategic leverage. We have to be treated as a trusted resilient supplier. In other words, we have to be able to provide product when our customers need it. And that takes a different kind of policy than we've put in place before. We have to diversify our trade corridors and our logistics, not just our customers, align our standards, our data traceability with our allies. And there's actually things that we could be doing using food ingredients and bio based inputs as part of economic deterrence. And we never talk like that. When Canada is a reliable, trusted, hard to replace supplier, coercion becomes less attractive. We can be coerced right now. And so I think that's a really important factor that we have to, it's really, we're trying to be stronger as a country so that we can respond to these trade issues. Alison, when you mentioned logistics, I just wonder, could you dive a bit deeper into what that looks like with your big idea and what kind of policy options there are within Canada to kind of better our logistics, as you're saying, and then also kind of that national infrastructure, how do we get products even just to our ports? Okay, so we really need to invest in our ports, our rail and our digital trade infrastructure. It's not just, it's just not hard assets. It's actually we have to be better at some of the digital side to enable us to exchange. And that goes back to what I was talking about, electronic data interchange. If we are, if trade is a weapon, then I would say that resilience is defence and reliability is the power switch in that. And so if we produce to compete, we build the middle and we trade as defence, I think actually will create a very, very strong agricultural industry. And so everything that I'm talking about actually crosses over into other industries, energy, mines and mineral. I mean we really have a trifecta of possibility in Canada and that we don't necessarily monetize to our best advantage. You hit on something there about hitting in other areas. Are there trade offs with this big idea in other sectors or are there unintended consequences that you can see? Not at all. Because if you are creating processing, if you're hardening the middle and I say we have the startup and then the middle is our innovation arc and then our success point is having stronger industry like food systems, energy security, cyber and critical infrastructure, hardening our rapid recovery and incident response, industrial policy for surge capacity and trade diversification and trusted corridors that goes across all industry in Canada. But agriculture has the potential to create the greater gdp, except for energy perhaps. But we do have a very strong infrastructure that we could build on. But Alison, I know that you talked about there's not a lot of trade offs, but ultimately part of what you're talking about is government should be spending on some of these strategic initiatives. Earlier you talked about fiscal constraints. So if we're going to, if we look within the agriculture world and we're going to spend on some of these things and again, I think that there's a tremendous amount of reason to look beyond the status quo, how we're spending money today. But if we're going to spend money on these things, what should we not spend on instead? Okay, I don't like looking at that. Let me put it this way. What we spend on today, let's make sure it's very capital efficient. It isn't. Okay, so let's go for this is this is literally Startup 101. When the money dries up and you don't have a Runway, what do you have to do? You have to reduce your expenses, you have to refocus your efforts and then you also have to know how to use capital really effectively. So capital spent, make sure that more dollars are coming in and capital leverage is something that I think we don't use well in this country. For every dollar that's spent on public, we should be setting a target that 3 to 5 in public expenditure is being spent especially for midstream projects. And there's credit enhancement tools, guarantees, first loss programmes, also taxation and really the redundancy and continuity really look at what we're spending on. Is it actually what we should be spending on? And let's stop doing some things. And that's a really important we tend to keep on running programmes even when we know they fail. So let's make sure that we're looking at what we should be stopping doing as well as what we should continue doing. And we have to get far more agile, we have to get far more creative and far more innovative in our funding programmes. I hope you enjoyed today's show. Alison Sundstrom did a fantastic job. Great, great questions by Tyler McCann and Elise Bigley of CAPI. This has been the Ag Policy Connection podcast. Encourage you to cheque out the full version. You're going to hear a little bit more in the bonus today as well. So I encourage you to go to the RealAg Radio podcast to hear the rest of this conversation. But if you have any feedback, want to hear it shaneeyealagriculture.com or of course you can always call or text the RealAg feedback line 855-776-6147. Thanks everybody for getting real and getting connected with RealAg Radio. We'll chat again tomorrow. Cheers everybody. Thank you for downloading this Reel Egg Radio podcast brought to you by Pounce 384 EC insecticide from FMC. With proven performance across multiple crops, Pounce 384 EC helps you stay ahead of pest pressure and protect your crop investment. Talk to your local retailer to learn more. And welcome to the bonus here on Reelect Radio. Hope you've enjoyed this conversation with Alison Sunderstrom from the Ag Policy Connection podcast hosted by Elise bigley and Tyler McCann, both of Cappy. You know I said we're going to do news today. I don't think we're going to because I've still got some audio to play for you on the rest of this interview and I'm not sure we should make this a three hour podcast today. So let's hear the rest of the conversation that Elise and Tyler had with Alison Sunstream. So I want to look to the future now and you've touched a lot on this. But if we're thinking about food systems as national security, how do we make that happen? And how do we make the food system more relevant and meaningful? What do we need to do differently? The fact that we're even having this conversation makes me nuts, okay? Because the reality is, and I'm sorry Elise, but the reality is if we don't understand how important food is to us, then we have a problem. And secondarily, what our opportunity is. Our opportunity is so large and I really think that we have to be focusing on that and why there's a discussion. And look, I drive an electric vehicle, okay? But the reality is there will be some trade offs that have to happen. Not everything can occur in every province, not everything can occur everywhere. And so I kind of say that we have to learn how to compete to win. And what we've done is we've made ourselves so nice, so wonderful, but we have to learn how to compete to win. And that philosophy is really that we collaborate on the foundations, but we compete aggressively on outcomes. And that is something that we have to do. We have to be able to adopt technology faster than anywhere. Cost curves and productivity gains, we really have to know what they are, what are our gains. Exportable platforms that we have and we have a lot of, a lot of our byproducts are just wasted. They could be developed into new income streams and man, oh man, we have to increase the time from proof to scale and that's regulatory pathways and other policy levers that could be driven. And we have to attract private capital, we have to attract foreign investment, not be afraid of it, but make Canada the most investable space. We have all the ingredients. We just have to put it together. So I think that you mentioned the regulatory issues, and when you mentioned we were going to have to innovate faster, my first thought was, how the heck are we going to do that if we have so many regulatory burdens? And I know that some of the things that you mentioned were raised by the economic strategy table. And it seems like nothing's really changed. Like, how do we do it differently? I think there have been some changes, but I also think that we have to. We don't want to make our food system less secure, but definitely there are ways that we can sandbox where we can. We can be the most creative environment. We have a novel food structure that actually is fairly good. But it's not just time. It's actually knowing that you will get regulatory approval if you meet certain goals. This isn't tough. What we tend to do is we tend to talk about the same things, but never with solutions. Quit talking about it. Let's do it. I mean, if only it was that easy, Alison. But. But I think, I mean, one of the things that's different about how you talk about this again, I'm going to come back to this that often when people talk about agriculture as national security and this need to think differently about it, they just use that as a way to say we want to keep doing what we're doing. Right? We want the prime minister to say that agriculture is national security so then we can keep doing what we're doing. But you're saying we need to think and invest and spend differently. This focus on innovation, this focus on kind of driving out kind of in this direction. What happens if we don't do that? Right. So Elise mentioned the economic strategy table. That was, I think, seven or eight years ago now. Things haven't changed. Where are we going to be seven or eight years from now? If we continue down this path? We're going to be exactly where we are today because we've reached the bottom. We perform across the OECD, across G7. We are the worst performers. There are countries. Slovenia love the country, but they're doing better on innovation than we are. What does that say about us with all of this potential? And so I really think we have to get more competitive. I think we have to cooperate and collaborate on the plumbing, the actual things that go underneath. And there's one thing that I really want to hit. And as an Albertan, I really want to say we have got to have a federal agricultural strategy. And I'd also like to say to all our organisation, many who I love, we don't need one in every province. We don't need cattle associations, feeder associations. We need to understand that together we do much better. We also have to have competitive federalism. In other words, provinces that hit the national scorecard for agriculture and investment, maybe they get a little more programme flexibility. In provinces that miss targets, maybe we have to go through a mandatory redesign and consolidation. This is something that startups handle every day. If you haven't got enough money, you have to figure out how to do it. I want to see more portfolio discipline in our government. And by that. So as a venture capitalist, I have to look at my discipline in the portfolio that I put together. Milestone gated funding. So if you don't hit your milestones, you don't get more funding. Public sunset rules for stalled initiatives. That's one thing that I'd really like to see. I don't want to see programmes that keep on failing, keep on getting money and no automatic renewals. And if we look at that really realistically, there has to be a division of labour across our country. But Allison, one of the problems that we've run into, and I sat around the advisory table for the sustainable agriculture strategy, that was a time of the government trying to come up with that national strategy. I mean, there were a lot of reasons why that process didn't work. And I'm not going to hold it up as the example, but it underscores this kind of challenge of the strategy works when everyone buys into it. But to get something that everyone buys into, certainly from a political context, is really tough. It's tough, it's tough. It's tough being a startup trying to do the same thing. And so the best way to drive success in a startup is through metrics, benchmarks and not necessarily collaboration as much, but capital is one immense power dealer. And so if you want the capital, you've got to have the outcome. But. But when you look at kind of incentives and motivations, right, you talk about it from that, that entrepreneur perspective, that's, that's really clear, clear, straightforward. Like those same incentives and motivations don't apply in government. Like, that's just unfortunate reality of how the system doesn't work, right? One of the reasons why, like, we. It's hard for the Agriculture Minister to show the leadership, to bring people together to get that strategy that you talk about because the political kind of power is so distributed. He's got kind of provincial ministers. There's this multitude of groups that you talked about. Does it involve taking a little bit more risk and doing things different? Would you like to see an agriculture minister that maybe ruffled some feathers and kind of pissed some people off along the way? Okay, absolutely, to a point. If we look at the budget that he has, he doesn't have a big enough budget to do everything that I said. He's got to attract capital. Okay. So by attracting capital, that is what is going to make change. We need to have Canada be an investable place and a place you want to do business in. And you know, I know that it seems like we have a lot of big things that have to be handled, but we can chunk them down. And I really have to say that we spend a lot of time on forums, strategies, tables, great. But we really need to tie authority to outcomes. So everything has to have an outcome. And in terms of like innovation in agriculture, I say make adoption, not research output, the dominant success metric. Let's find the levers that get us adopting new technology, adopting new processes and create some hard incentives to connect the innovation continuum. All the groups that you're talking about and in terms of regulatory, let's reduce the risk, not just the burden. And so that's just looking at things a little bit differently. Yeah, it's tough, Tyler. What we're talking about is really tough, but I think we just need to get realigned. I want to go back. So Tyler had mentioned when you were talking about, you know, how do we get buy in in your federal agriculture strategy and kind of that competitive federalism. And Tyler was saying those that incentive based works for startups but not so much for government. And Alison said, you said, yes, it does. And I just want to dig into that a little bit more because I am having. I think what you're suggesting is fabulous. It's a great big idea, but I don't know how I can visualise it within government in the current state. Like how do we. I've already asked how do we make it happen? Like how. That seems like a huge shift. No, it's a pretty easy shift. When you don't have enough money, you've got to go get more money. And so you do that by having policies and incentives that create the drive to come into Canada within government itself. It really is just right, sizing government. And basically we have to be more capital efficient, we have to be more Innovative. And we have to have a defence strategy that includes Canada, agriculture, cyber, all the things that make us less vulnerable to coercion are what we have to focus on. And I don't know, I'm going to say something kind of provocative, but provincially and federally we're in a constant kind of battle and this is really to speak to Alberta separatists. But this is the worst possible strategy at the worst possible time. This is the time for Canada to really pull it together. It doesn't increase autonomy, whether we are provincial, provincialized, I'd say, or separatist, what it's really doing, it's not increasing autonomy, it's actually selling turns. Alberta, if we have a separatist movement and turns us into a more, a smaller, more exposed economy that has to renegotiate everything, currency, borders, pensions, trust funds, trade, access in depth. And in the middle of this pressure, it invites the exact kind of foreign leverage and interference that we should be shutting down. And so let's think about this. In all these organisations, communities, all these things we need to pull together, we need. And so I actually think the challenge is not as great as we foresee. If we have a bias to action, we won't get everything right. But let's start acting. Who leads this? Well, who leads it is. It really is the people who care about eating, which means it's all of us. So who leads it is? The government can be an incredible innovator in making change. They cannot do it all. The government cannot do it all. And so it really is a group of public and private entities that can see a stronger agricultural society or stronger agricultural marketplace and financial returns will come. And that's what really drives success, is not only financial, though, please also consider we can do things differently, we can be more sustainable, but we have to drive our economic returns. Well, Alison, I get the pleasure of asking the last question of the day and we always ask our interviewees, what is one thing you want people to take away from today's conversation with your big idea? Well, really, I think it's all about defence and the next generation. Agriculture is about producing food for us now, but into the future and let's be resilient. I think that's a good note to end on. Alison, we really appreciate you taking the time to join us today and again, certainly in this era of food conflict or conflict and debate, these kind of changes that are happening inside I Canada, I think that your words are timely, so really appreciate you taking the time to join us. Thank you, Tyler. Thank you. Elise if you listen to the full version on the Ag Policy Connection podcast, Tyler and Elise wrap up with their final thoughts at the end of the podcast. So I encourage you to go and download the full version and listen to that. You can do that by going to RealLifeCulture.com as well as the RealAg YouTube channel and wherever you get your podcast. Well, hey, what did you, you know, based on what you heard here today, really would love your interaction, your feedback. Alison Sundstrom is honestly, she like so smart. She's intelligent, she's. She's thought about this a lot. A lot. And comes with experience too. It's just not some sort of like academic intellectual that never leaves their office. She's been in the trenches when it comes to the Canadian ag industry and innovation and has some really interesting thoughts. And it makes sense that agriculture does need to be. It needs to be more in the national security discussion for a number of reasons, from my perspective, not just about food, not just like that. That's one component of you've heard me talk about on the show before. I think it's also about feed, fuel and fibre as well. And agriculture is doing a lot to drive the economic progress of the industry. So watch your thoughts. Shaneeyealagriculture.com you can call or text the RealAg Feedback line. Thanks for downloading the RealAg Radio podcast. All the best to you and we'll chat again tomorrow. Cheers everybody.