Gabriele Gysi in the interview: "A brick wall is always an intellectual bankruptcy declaration"

The five members of the BSW could play a decisive role in the election of the next Prime Minister of Saxony-Anhalt. However, the party does not want to support the CDU candidate nor Ulrich Siegmund of the AfD in December. The actress Gabriele Gysi considers this course wrong. During a panel discussion in Magdeburg, she called on the BSW to vote for Siegmund on Sunday. The 80-year-old herself does not belong to any party. For decades she stood on theater stages and directed. Today she is increasingly involved in political debates. In an interview with this newspaper, she explains why she rejects the iron curtain to the AfD, what she envisions as a cooperation between the AfD and BSW, and what children, in her opinion, should learn in German schools. Trapped behind the iron curtain: The CDU can leave the room, she cannot escape her dilemma AfD and BSW in Saxony-Anhalt: "A tolerance is that already" Gabriele Gysi, you said on Sunday in Magdeburg that the BSW was forced by voter will to elect Ulrich Siegmund as Prime Minister to bring down the iron curtain. What do you mean by that? I find the iron curtain so incredibly stupid that I can hardly express it. An iron curtain is always an intellectual bankruptcy declaration. No matter what others say, one must always find an argument. An iron curtain, on which the parties agree, basically prevents all opposition. One could consider all these parties, namely the CDU, SPD, Greens, and Left, as one party in a point obviously essential for the voters, even if other parties are founded. And this is indirectly the abolition of democracy, at least representative democracy. One could argue back to you: People know that this iron curtain exists. If they vote for parties that want to stick to the iron curtain, one cannot blame them for doing so afterwards. That is true, but it does not make the situation better. The media framing of the AfD, which is used as a justification for the iron curtain, is false. If this framing is imposed in such massive form, with disadvantage, exclusion, and refusal of social participation, then people are naturally afraid. They want to belong to those who are good and fear opposing them. About the person Later she directed numerous theaters and was the chief dramaturg for the Berlin Volksbühne from 2007 to 2008. She is the daughter of the former GDR Minister of Culture Klaus Gysi and the older sister of the Left party MP Gregor Gysi. She does not belong to any political party. The BSW elected an AfD state parliament president in Saxony-Anhalt. If you then address the party that it will probably elect Ulrich Siegmund as Prime Minister, it is sharply rejected. How do you explain this difference? With this incredible pressure and this decades-long framing. I would not say that the BSW is resisting. The BSW is under immense pressure and facing a great test. It is very difficult today to stand against this mainstream. I find it great that the party has the courage to adopt other mindsets and question the iron curtain. The will of the voters must be respected. Does that mean the BSW has its own iron curtain? There is an iron curtain for everyone. It exists for you, for me, for everyone. And I find that incredibly shameless. And if Ulrich Siegmund is not elected in December? He will be elected. If the election is really secret and not everyone goes out, he will be elected anyway. The AfD, if you can blame them for something, wants the world not to come here illegally. Gabriele Gysi Whoever demands some kind of cooperation with the AfD is accused of being a holder of the gilded cage of fascism. What do you reply to that? Then you must first deal with what fascism is. Fascism was an imperial movement to dominate the world. The AfD does not want a war with Russia. The fascists wanted war with Russia. The AfD wants national statehood and sovereignty to be protected. This is not imperialism, but the opposite. The National Socialists in Germany wanted the world to belong to them. The AfD, if you can blame them for something, wants the world not to come here illegally. That is so-called the opposite of a National Socialist. Can one still reject what the AfD wants? Of course, one can reject it. One just has to find an argument and say what one really wants. But one must also accept that there are people who do not want so many foreigners to come to Germany. If you speak of exclusion: Do you also refer to German history? If there is something in our German history where I say: Never again, then it is exclusion. There was the Reich Pogromnacht in Germany. Such forms of exclusion must not be repeated. People who say one must point a finger at others stand for me at the beginning of national socialist culture. That is exactly never again. Nicolai Schwarzer: "If I only stop one from voting right- or left-extremist, I have contributed something" There is always a dispute between the AfD and the Left regarding the handling of fascism and antisemitism. Recently, Mrs. von Storch in the Bundestag criticized the Left and accused them of being antisemites because they believe that the Palestinians should not be slaughtered. And the Left replied that the AfD are Nazis. I was sitting there and thought: That is a US psycho-op. Do you mean both sides? Both sides. This is not a discussion. It is just stupid. Of course, the AfD is not a Nazi party. They just want no one to come illegally. And the Left, who point out that Israel may have committed war crimes in the Gaza Strip with its actions, would you also call them antisemites? Of course not. State-controlled broadcasting How do you concretely envision a cooperation between the AfD and the BSW in Saxony-Anhalt? I don't even have to imagine that. The deputies have to do that. If, for example, the BSW is responsible for education, that would be great. Schools are not only lacking materially. The educational concepts are clearly not sustainable. Every PISA study proves this. The problem today is that through the development of anti-authoritarian education, no one wants to take responsibility for the children anymore. Behind this lies the dumbest assertion that everything is in the child. There is nothing in the child. Every child is shaped. Otherwise there would be no different languages, customs, and cultures. What is actually happening in my eyes is the annihilation of every cultural difference. And they call that multiculturalism. An enormous loss of culture is taking place What do you wish for young people in Germany? That they speak good German because it is such a clever language. That they are not led to give up this grammar, this language, which Kant, Hegel, and Marx thought about. For example, I once wondered if Freud discovered the superego from the German grammar. What do you marvel at? How do you get to that? In German there is the sentence: "I move." In French it is "Je bouge." In English it is "I move." That is not thought reflexively. But with "I move," it is assumed that there is a self that can move me, even though I am that self. This grammatical construction is, in my opinion, the basis of the theory. This language allows so much, and then it is reduced to a war between men and women, which has very different causes in the USA and is by no means transferable. Gregor Gysi about the Berlin Theater Ost: "My heart depends on it" Do you mean the dispute over the generic masculinity? Exactly. The students must read "Faust" in school, and all of them. No matter where they come from. They are then confronted with history. It is sad what an enormous loss of culture is taking place. I have also been observing a fight against German theater for a long time. For 30 years, money has been discussed in the state theaters and national theaters, but not about the culture that has developed in this country and is unique. The Russian occupying power had a different policy than the American one. The Russians expressed their admiration for German culture when the German Theater reopened in 1945 with "Nathan the Wise". And today, the migration question is being stylized as a racial question and German culture is stigmatized in relation to fascism. That is an injustice. How do you envision the political future of Germany? If everything were going well, the European nation-states would support and protect their own culture and sovereignty differently. Europe has always radiated through differences. And they need borders. Borders are important. Wars were never caused by nation-states, but always by the imperial intentions of the elites. Imperial is the opposite of national. Internationality means that there are nations. Otherwise there is no internationality. Why the AfD cannot become a transatlantic party They were born in 1946 and worked as successful actresses in renowned theaters. They could relax and enjoy the rest of their lives. What drives you to continue to get involved in political debates? Because there is really danger of war. This is no joke. We have a government elite in the EU that drives Europe into war. Russia had the hope for a common security architecture after 1989, for a peaceful coexistence through trade, understanding, and cultural exchange, especially with Germany, because the Russians have such a close relationship with Germany. And now we are under tremendous pressure. The Left should actually be against this, but since they are all young, sweet, and inexperienced today, they are not. "The enemy image of Russia is necessary": Publicist Gabriele Krone-Schmalz in an interview And who can prevent this war? The AfD is the only party that could stop a war. Therefore, it is such a strong force in East Germany. Because it represents this will for peace and the AfD does this together with the tiny BSW. That is why the AfD cannot become a transatlantic party. What else would you give young people besides reading "Faust"? "Sire, give freedom of thought!" This is a famous phrase from Schiller's "Don Carlos". That is basically my headline as well. Freedom of thought is forbidden if the European Union sanctions journalists for interpreting reality differently. Ban thinking! And I say this because I was born in 1946, as you have established: Who should resist if not us older people? How can you make the young do otherwise? Your opinion is important to us. Send us your feedback on this article: briefe@berliner-zeitung.de